Permission to Spend, Whole Life Wisdom, and Lie-UL’s with Tom Wall

00:00:00: There's a lot of noise in this business and a lotta people telling you how to do it who really haven't done it before.

00:00:05: I've been fortunate over my entire career, have had the chance to build or grow, to make mistakes, to embrace the suck, then ultimately learn from some of the best people in the industry as podcast is gonna be little bit different.

00:00:18: This about giving back.

00:00:19: It's about sharing ideas helping younger advisors think bigger and operate at higher level.

00:00:24: We're going stop pretending that any of these things are easy.

00:00:26: we will have fun with them though I'm gonna bring together some of the smartest most interesting people i know in the business.

00:00:33: And then these are the people that i respect them.

00:00:35: so it'll be our chance to share with him to learn from them and to grow at them and have some actual real conversations.

00:00:41: excited to have you here excited introduce my dear friend tom wall, tom is the founder and the host of whole life masterminds.

00:00:48: he's also hosting a fast art forum and the author An incredible bug for mission to spend.

00:00:54: All opinions expressed by the program participants are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinions of their respective parent companies, affiliates or the company's with which they're affiliated.

00:01:03: Investments or strategies mentioned in this may be suitable for you but should make your independent decisions regarding them.

00:01:08: This material does NOT take into account your particular investment objectives financial situations or needs.

00:01:13: it is not intended as recommendations appropriate for you.

00:01:15: You should strongly consider seeking advice from your own investment advisor.

00:01:31: Tom thanks for being

00:01:32: here.

00:01:32: Thank you so much for having me in today.

00:01:34: Tom, I'm going to kick us off with my favorite part of You.

00:01:56: where I became a life insurance expert as an internal wholesaler before very quickly moving to become an external wholesaler.

00:02:04: What is the wholesaler?

00:02:06: A wholesaler kind of like product expert for advisors, you can almost think about it at pharmaceutical rep or your company's products.

00:02:16: two advisers are in case of pharma doctors and saying this should sell to clients.

00:02:21: In my case, because of the nature of The Advisors they wanted to sell that product.

00:02:27: It was really just more about how make it fit.

00:02:29: so I fell in love with telling stories around.

00:02:32: where does this fit inside a financial planning?

00:02:34: How do you get clients motivated to do this and along way studied real hard?

00:02:39: try figure out if is good idea something probably wouldn't have to apologize for or actually best thing people could be doing their money.

00:02:47: So after a relatively long home office career and a lot of studies along the way, I was wrapping up my PhD.

00:02:53: And i really just wanted to go out.

00:02:54: make it bigger impact you know?

00:02:56: I wanted to talk to the broader world...to the broader space..I wanted to publish my book....I wanted get on bigger stages but not from an ego driven place.

00:03:04: It is that there's less support for advisors And they say that you're most equipped to help the person that you once were.

00:03:13: So as I get out on all these stages, the thing that motivates me the most and means the most to me is that I'm able to speak.

00:03:20: at this point.

00:03:20: not even thousands tens of thousands of advisors annually give them language i didn't have Give them conviction I didn't Have given research.

00:03:31: I Didn't have to lean On.

00:03:33: make Them more confident To go Out and have The tough Conversations That part of our business uniquely is capable of doing.

00:03:41: Which got so successful, I started hosting my own live events which have now grown to about five hundred people each year called the Fast Start Forum.

00:03:48: you were just at in January So we're spreading messages as far and wide as possible can.

00:03:54: Okay!

00:03:55: There's a lot there big fan of Fast Start forum Big fan masterminds and learned of, and learn from more incredible top tier talent in the business on masterminds than anywhere else.

00:04:07: I think you've congregated all these amazing people but one of the beautiful skills that you have which i'm trying to figure out what got you into this is taking all this complex stuff that all these guys are saying and further simplifying it down?

00:04:20: I think your future's very bright when it comes.

00:04:29: You and I have talked a little bit about that book in the past.

00:04:31: Do you want to give us sneak peek on what your working?

00:04:34: Yeah, i got couple of different directions.

00:04:36: The one is called Permission To Spend And...i think im gonna rewrite it soon.

00:04:40: just because four years later Im learning every day that ive been doing this with cool part being at center bringing top-one percent advisors like yourself or bring biggest thought leaders into our space I sharpen my own saw, and get better.

00:04:58: So i want to rewrite that book but the next one is a little bit more prescriptive.

00:05:03: you know there's this concept I throw out called The Two Percent Solution And really it not complex than instead of thinking about savings rate its just moving two percent your net worth into protection based products like whole life insurance for example.

00:05:18: if you have million dollars move twenty thousand you know, just two percent of your net worth into premium for a product like that.

00:05:24: And the outcome tends to be that you buy enough insurance where it protects what you've built today and it de-risks your overall allocation by adding in the actuarial science.

00:05:34: so I think that's probably we're all go is helping advisors Like What To Say?

00:05:40: This Is Actually How The Sixteen Minute Meeting With Your Client Should Go.

00:05:43: These Are The Steps Because We Can Talk In High Level But We Assume The Advisors Know Take what we say and then turn it into a client meeting.

00:05:52: So

00:05:52: they don't,

00:05:53: right?

00:05:54: Yeah

00:05:54: virtually guarantee that I do.

00:05:56: you know eight to ten meetings with other advisors day And i can see That They Don't Know What To Say Right?

00:06:01: so i think Given all of your Levels Of Degrees Your Intelligence Your Acumen in This Explain All Life Like A five-Year Old Or like You're Explaining It too A Five Year Old.

00:06:13: So term insurance, the reason it's so cheap is because less than two percent of policies ever actually pay out.

00:06:23: They don't have to collect a whole lot kind like car insurance.

00:06:25: you know your most people Don't have catastrophic crashes during their life.

00:06:28: But he still got an only just in case The Whole Life Insurance that the premium Is You Know ten to twenty ten to Twenty times higher In some cases Because It's A certainty.

00:06:37: Your Effectively Prefunds Your Funding that ultimate claim down the road.

00:06:41: So whole life insurance is a permanent policy, it lasts as long as you do.

00:06:44: and the difference between whole-life insurance in other flavors out there indexed universal life variable universal life There's many forms of Universal Life Is That It's Guaranteed.

00:06:56: The Insurance Company Absorbs All Of The Risk Above and beyond that, right?

00:07:11: But you have those rock solid guarantees.

00:07:12: And once you get non-guaranteed dividends and things like that Those go back into the policy become your new guarantee.

00:07:18: they can't be clawed back.

00:07:20: so Why I'm so focused on whole life insurance is because it shifts The risk to the insurance company whereas universal Life Designs the client bears a lot of their risks.

00:07:30: So Whole Life Insurance Is really A tool for You To D-Risk.

00:07:34: Now i'll give you the Framework.

00:07:36: if I were to Describe It to a Client whole life insurance knowing that I have a permanent death benefit, it pays out when i die gives me a guaranteed delivery of future dollars for my family and if I know that my family is going to receive that money.

00:07:49: That allows me during my life To take big risks with my capital spend aggressively just bare bones.

00:07:56: Just stay more invested in the market in retirement because I don't really care what happens to My money?

00:08:05: It almost sounds like you just boiled it all down to, it is permissioned to spend.

00:08:09: Yeah that's pretty

00:08:11: wild.

00:08:12: Who should not own whole life?

00:08:14: You gotta love other people To own whole-life insurance If your a single retiree and you don't care.

00:08:19: Or maybe... Maybe..you do Love Other People But both of your kids are neurosurgeons Making millions And Millions Like.

00:08:25: For those folks The legacy may be less than concern.

00:08:28: I think for most Of our clients Most of the people we work with They love other peoples.

00:08:32: So Owning Life Insurance meets the obligation to those family members who shouldn't own it.

00:08:40: You know, I think if you're just starting out there's nothing wrong with buying term and investing in a difference or saving the difference for awhile.

00:08:47: But even then i would argue that you should buy your term insurance from an insurance company That has a whole life product?

00:08:57: But those are the folks.

00:08:58: I think one of black eyes in this business is.

00:09:00: it gets oversold, you know?

00:09:02: Young advisors oversell whole life insurance to people that just getting started they might not have net worth or steady cash flows.

00:09:19: So the project, uh, two hundred.

00:09:20: they told me to sell all my college buddies when I first got into business.

00:09:23: Those were not the ideal people to be buying whole life at twenty one years old making fifty thousand dollars a year?

00:09:30: I was licensed selling insurance while still in college and remember all of my friends.

00:09:33: we're still out drinking seven nights a week just finding one of them to buy from.

00:09:38: yeah And i oversold some of them.

00:09:40: um but In the end I think a lot of them did really well because They bought it so young.

00:09:45: so It can go both ways.

00:09:47: This is good and bad in it.

00:09:49: You know my business.

00:09:50: you don't really, really well.

00:09:52: I compete a lot against IUL.

00:09:53: Yeah i've heard that you call it lie UL A few times.

00:09:56: Why do you Call It That?

00:09:58: You Know...I call it Lie UL because there's a lie In the way that its sold And The Way Its Sold Is That Its Got Downside Protection With Upside Potential.

00:10:09: And Truth Is There Is No Downside Protection.

00:10:15: A VUL is going to perform based on what the market actually does year-to-year.

00:10:19: I have no problem with VUL, it's not my choice for a lot of reasons we could get into.

00:10:23: if you want... We're

00:10:24: gonna spend time in that.

00:10:24: I like VUL and wanna know why you don't like it but let's go there next!

00:10:27: Uh..I didn't say I don't Like It just said its' Not My

00:10:31: Choice.

00:10:31: That can work.

00:10:32: You are invested in the Market.

00:10:33: The Market historically has always recovered anytime Its been bad.

00:10:37: If its well designed ,it Can Go Up.

00:10:42: they try to imply in many cases, advisors that I call either unscrupulous the bad ones or sometimes just uneducated.

00:10:49: They're not quite sure how it all works is?

00:10:52: there's a crediting strategy says you can get today say zero-to ten percent.

00:10:56: and if you get a zero when year where everybody else was losing thirty per cent on the markets down Zero?

00:11:01: Is Your Hero That actually language that advisers will use.

00:11:05: I can't

00:11:08: imagine actually saying those words out loud.

00:11:10: I'm glad you said them, but never gonna say that out!

00:11:12: I'd say it's a joke about it... But my response to this is the cap as the trap in these policies because your capped anytime you get behind of market just stay at course and then when the market does forty percent next year come back.

00:11:27: That cant happen into not-you.

00:11:28: well So people sell their stuff upside potential if we know they lose value once out four years Roughly and over.

00:11:37: you know history then, you know ten percent isn't really your upside.

00:11:41: You know twenty five percent of the time.

00:11:43: You're gonna get it.

00:11:43: You're going to be credited a zero just based on historical numbers.

00:11:47: So really?

00:11:47: Your best case scenario in an IUL is like six or seven percent.

00:11:51: so we're looking at whole life-like performance but with none of the guarantees None of the mutuality of the company.

00:11:58: if interest rates skyrocket There's no guarantee.

00:12:01: any of that goes through as the policy and are worried you get that in whole life.

00:12:04: So when I say lie, it was really a can work like these policies absolutely can't work if they're well designed Well managed.

00:12:11: but your best case scenario In an IUL is what?

00:12:14: You're going to get in Whole Life anyway because Of The mechanics of the crediting strategy And how the company buys the call option spreads To give you those Crediting rates.

00:12:22: It just makes No sense to me To own That When You Can Have The Same Performance Or Better but fully guaranteed by a company.

00:12:31: that's been around since, you know civil war times.

00:12:33: You earlier were talking about the trend towards holistic and fee based planning?

00:12:38: And a lot of that I mean generally.

00:12:40: just the word planning implies we're going to start with protection.

00:12:43: i know people are afraid of protection.

00:12:44: one of The things it scares the heck out me is doing protection planning or the product That has very little to no guarantees Or you know Very hard to manage isn't particularly the safest of options, if not done well.

00:12:58: I do believe IUA can be done...I own one!

00:13:00: I bought it on my mom just to try to buy one and see how it went.

00:13:04: It's been difficult to manage.

00:13:05: so all these advisors because from data i've seen The vast majority of insurance sold is not whole life Right.

00:13:11: How are this people doing?

00:13:14: Well, there's a couple things unpacked.

00:13:16: There.

00:13:16: the reason that most of them don't sell whole life is because if you think about all the advisors in industry The only ones that are selling whole-life insurance or typically affiliated with one of these carriers So that is a minority of the advisers and history.

00:13:27: Yeah If your gun out to the broader market Most of them who did not grow up in a whole life space That's what they have available.

00:13:33: it looks really good on an illustration.

00:13:35: so You know.

00:13:37: how are they managing him?

00:13:39: The best advisors, the ones that are working with multi-million dollar clients like you.

00:13:43: I think they're managing them.

00:13:44: For most part those advisers actually do their due diligence and being with a client couple of times per year in managing it.

00:13:51: but truth is life insurance space once you sell a policy there's no regulatory requirement for ever.

00:13:58: go back to talk about this client again.

00:14:00: You sold something They bought some thing And good advisor should review all these things But nothing requiring.

00:14:07: So I think in a lot of cases, you know, advisors either don't service the business or there's high turnover rate.

00:14:14: A lot of advisors just leave the business and people own these things for years and years because they're unmanaged to start to underperform And then get into a situation where you can't possibly catch up.

00:14:24: based on the mechanics of policy You CAN catch-up but it requires more money out your pocket To fix what went wrong.

00:14:32: That is fundamental issue is the ongoing management.

00:14:36: And with whole life, there is no ongoing management required.

00:14:39: as long as the premiums are being paid everything's going to work out just fine it's all guaranteed and then there's upside.

00:14:45: but unless you took your money off alone let us sit for decades.

00:14:50: It's far more predictable.

00:14:54: typically if have those lapse scenarios see them coming farther in advance.

00:14:58: I think probability of working very high

00:15:01: hard

00:15:01: to screw up its designed.

00:15:03: I like all of that.

00:15:06: The world that i live in is very unique, you know?

00:15:08: I am talking to the one-percent client and you talk to a one percent advisor...I'm talking to every advisor but I've also focused heavily on That One Percent Client.

00:15:16: My World Is Heavily About Buying The Amount Of Coverage I Need Even If I Don't Want A Cash Flow For It.

00:15:22: Its About Using Other People's Money And In my World Not Servicing That Policy Leads To At All Falling Apart.

00:15:29: Now I've Heard You In The Past Talk About pitfalls of premium financing.

00:15:34: I want to hear from you, just your view of the landscape...I don't care if it's IUL a whole life but just the view of financing.

00:15:44: and where goes wrong?

00:15:47: Well there is nothing wrong with financing.

00:15:50: we finance everything in life.

00:15:51: i've even taken that form you all the way down for micro-financing.

00:15:55: You know The Bottle Of Wine last night on my credit card.

00:15:57: That will pay off after couple weeks.

00:15:59: Another

00:15:59: one showed

00:16:02: up All the way to buying a home, which I also did yesterday.

00:16:07: Congratulations again!

00:16:08: So that'll happen over thirty... so with life insurance it's just like buying at home.

00:16:12: you know if let say you had enough money to buy house and cash If can borrow at tax deductible five or six percent.

00:16:18: why wouldn't?

00:16:20: Go invest my money elsewhere in my business heck just stock market.

00:16:24: wherever i will keep that money invested.

00:16:26: its how most people would approach that.

00:16:28: I think financing is same that kind of capital where you could buy life insurance or give money to a trust for estate planning, things like that.

00:16:38: But that money would continue to generate wealth elsewhere and usually these are folks who have been good with their business.

00:16:46: they're qualified to get those much higher returns potentially than in the market, I think that's where it makes a lot of sense.

00:16:53: Where you can keep your capital invested and working for you And use the bank financing.

00:16:59: But i think what goes wrong is when people sell premium financing as the concept That not the concept.

00:17:04: It isn't arbitrage or taking advantage interest rates Simply financing your premium.

00:17:11: The purpose of policy typically for estate planning Is what we're talking about.

00:17:16: And I get a lot of advisors that come to me and say, hey Tom, can we talk about premium finance here?

00:17:19: Can you talk to my client about how premium financing works.

00:17:23: And then back the truck up like what are we financing in?

00:17:26: What's the purpose of the insurance?

00:17:28: The financing is the last part of the discussion so i don't think there's really pitfall.

00:17:32: The pitfall is not managing it but pitfalls obviously.

00:17:34: if you have an adjustable rate loan interest rates spike um...and also spike at the same time.

00:17:41: No,

00:17:41: it won't just magically go up?

00:17:43: Uh no!

00:17:44: It doesn't work that way.

00:17:45: so those risks should be disclosed to clients.

00:17:49: they should be reviewed every year.

00:17:50: you know That's why there are collateral requirements and underrating on these tends to be pretty strict in terms of what kind of capital do these clients have?

00:17:59: but I don't... There is not problem with premium financing done properly.

00:18:04: You've talked about how having a floating rate loan where interest rates can spike and your policy won't magically spike.

00:18:12: And I think one of those misnomers on this whole life concept or generally insurance in all general is this dividend piece, and i don't think people actually understand what drives the dividend how it works.

00:18:23: yeah...and i wrote down just now early on when i was trying to validate my business model ,i came an-I feel like i begged you for the data and you were like ''i'm not giving you my data'' and then eventually gave me some data around interest rates versus dividends, versus performance.

00:18:37: And you've done some analysis around it.

00:18:39: I'd love that if you could walk me through.

00:18:43: what is that magical arbitrage?

00:18:44: Does it exist?

00:18:45: and then ultimately how does this dividend thing work?

00:18:48: look dividends.

00:18:49: there's three components to the dividend.

00:18:50: uh There's mortality expense and an interest.

00:18:55: so mortality is effectively just less people dying than was assumed.

00:19:00: in the worst case scenario when Expenses.

00:19:03: the same thing when expenses are a little bit less than the worst case scenario that was Priced into the absolute guarantees.

00:19:09: some of that is given back to the policy owners.

00:19:11: But the longer you own the contract, The bigger portion in the dividend Is driven by.

00:19:14: They did an interest rate and all Of these major mutuals have what's called A general investment account hundreds of billions of dollars sitting there in reserve so that they can eventually pay the claims on the books, the trillions of dollars of death benefits that are on the book then need to get paid out down the road.

00:19:31: That's effectively what it is and the way its invested.

00:19:34: very much like an income fund you might sell too a retiree where purpose for that fund preservation capital but also kick off some income huge bond allocation coupon payments.

00:19:47: They'll own some equities in there, oftentimes it's subsidiaries that are generating profitability.

00:19:51: That kicks back to the general investment account if you will and all of those flows through with a policy owner as effectively the dividend interest rate.

00:19:59: so when company says they're paying six percent or whatever their number is as a dividend interest right?

00:20:09: So there's a lot of stability in that.

00:20:10: You know, they build these policies on two to four percent guarantees generally speaking and all of these companies have been paying dividends sent.

00:20:18: not all them if we're being compliant but the handful of biggest ones has been paying dividend since Civil War times you know.

00:20:25: so for me it is really no question.

00:20:27: are going get as long their business model remains mutual and to operate for the benefit of its policy owners, you're almost certainly going get one.

00:20:34: It's really just a more question of the rate at which it is going to be paid.

00:20:37: Have you ever studied some of these carriers that have demutualized?

00:20:41: I mean, it all about putting profits in the pockets of shareholders—the value.

00:20:48: You know what that is a mutual.

00:20:53: I got really fascinated about this recently in the eighteen fifties.

00:20:56: If you look at the corporate charter of all of the biggest ones out there like The Northwestern or mass or New York life, they were all founded around the eighteen fiftys Eighteen sixties.

00:21:04: so i was kind Of wondering What Was Going on At That Period of Time.

00:21:07: and if you think About What Was Happening In That period of time Forgetting the Civil War for A Minute It Was Industrialization And Moving West.

00:21:14: I mean Roads Were Being Built Forests Were being Cleared Railroads Like

00:21:19: I'm a nerd you are but We just talked about your PhD.

00:21:21: Keep going, yeah?

00:21:22: Well I was thinking like think of how risky that was.

00:21:26: Yeah You know a breadwinner in the family would leave home for months at a time and he may or may not come back.

00:21:33: because Think of How dangerous That kind Of work is.

00:21:35: And this Is prior to Social Security.

00:21:37: There's no social safety nets.

00:21:39: there were literally places called The poor house Back then.

00:21:41: thats where the term comes from Your Family.

00:21:43: if you don't Come Home might have To go to the Poor House Because theres No more Income.

00:21:48: So it was around this time where lacking social safety nets, some of the wealthy benefactors in communities said we're going to fix this.

00:21:55: We are actually gonna build mutual life insurance companies owned by its policy owners were dozens people from their community would kick-in money and buy policies and effectively they communally insured.

00:22:07: that way And off course we've grown into a fortune one hundred million policy owner company.

00:22:11: but that is the spirit.

00:22:12: so why thats important today.

00:22:15: It's more important than ever today, I think is because when you own a policy with the mutual life insurance company that Company is effectively sitting on the same side of the table as you.

00:22:24: their corporate Charter says they operate for the benefit of their policy owners.

00:22:27: There are no shareholders on Wall Street looking to get there.

00:22:30: profitability too.

00:22:32: So long-long answer your question.

00:22:34: But that's the value of mutuality and that's why i personally would only Only owned whole life insurance from A major mutual carrier.

00:22:42: And the fraternals act very similar too.

00:22:44: They're smaller, they are lesser known but they act very similarly to that with a stock company.

00:22:49: like a lot of times companies will de-mutualize and it's a money grab.

00:22:53: It is way to do different things for their capital But as stock based life insurance company serving two masters you know there was major one about ten years ago Their shareholders said this...they were one of biggest life insurers in business.

00:23:11: And they said it was met life, you know.

00:23:13: and they said basically its their shareholders.

00:23:15: So this is not as profitable of a business line to us As these other ones.

00:23:19: so we're gonna get out of the individual Whole-life insurance business.

00:23:25: and they did and there's nothing wrong with that.

00:23:27: The company still highly rated are going on or all their guarantees.

00:23:29: nobody's nobodies in trouble.

00:23:32: But they couldn't serve two masters.

00:23:34: now They had to serve the shareholders and the policy owners.

00:23:38: And that's just a losing proposition when your competition only has one person to serve, like a mutual.

00:23:43: Because you spend so much time talking to so many different kinds of advisors from all over the advisor landscape.

00:23:49: there is planning and product stuff.

00:23:51: There are specific strategies people talk about.

00:23:54: What gots your ear?

00:23:55: what exciting do u hear these days?

00:24:00: I'm not sure if theres any unique strategy.

00:24:01: today I'm in this bubble where out, I'm talking about permission to spend.

00:24:06: I'm taking about life insurance inside of retirement portfolio and that's kind all I see on a day-to-day basis.

00:24:12: Believe it or not its revolutionary you know?

00:24:14: Talking about sequence of returns risk the retirees as old news is what that is.

00:24:18: for us advisors It still brand new.

00:24:21: just every single client they bring in front And have no idea how to spend their money.

00:24:27: So for me, the core concept is permission to spend.

00:24:31: Honestly there's an element of that.

00:24:32: so what you're doing?

00:24:33: much higher in planning with ultra high net worth folks and hundreds a millions dollars.

00:24:37: but at the end today it's kind of same conversation.

00:24:40: they want to know their family or charitable interests are taken care of guaranteed locked-in tax efficient build businesses and make that legacy even greater or do whatever.

00:24:57: So it's just a bigger scale of the traditional retiree with single-digit millions trying to figure out how they spend it down during their retirement.

00:25:08: Best book you've read this year?

00:25:10: I probably read five or six times, but it's Alex Ramosy's One Hundred Million Dollar Offers.

00:25:16: Love it!

00:25:17: There is great advice... It doesn't matter what kind.

00:25:21: It's not about manipulation, it's about framing things so that clients understand the value and they actually take action.

00:25:26: And I say this all the time like in our business you can have the fanciest financial plans and calculators and pie charts and all of that cool stuff but its worthless unless a client is taking action on strategies or products as result of it.

00:25:41: Do remember when we were at...it was a casino?

00:25:46: The MGM in Springfield One of the first times.

00:25:48: I think that's like where our friendship was formed.

00:25:51: Yeah, i do remember that

00:25:52: besides The fact he taught me how to play craps That day.

00:25:54: if you members in my conversation about taking risk that we had sitting there We were at the video poker thing?

00:26:00: We did!

00:26:01: I Think that Was out a stage In My career Where I was actually considering making the leap and going Out And doing what I'm Doing right now.

00:26:06: You Were such an encouraging person To saying Of course you should Do that

00:26:09: one not Taking any credit for your Career.

00:26:11: but tell Me Tell me What we're taking.

00:26:12: risks Actually means to you in Your career.

00:26:15: You know it's funny.

00:26:17: you say that because I think people Think there is a risk like, you know.

00:26:20: I left A very comfortable home office job.

00:26:22: my reputation was great.

00:26:24: i've probably could retire.

00:26:25: list

00:26:26: of pretty good.

00:26:26: yeah Great reputed

00:26:27: put her retired from their earning a Good income and they had a great life.

00:26:32: But I wanted to go do this thing And It Was a huge Risk In the short term, it felt like a huge risk.

00:26:36: But when I really thought about after that fact and said It wasn't much of a risk If i failed...I'm very employable elsewhere.

00:26:43: What is my real downside for trying this?

00:26:45: And For me People ask what's your?

00:26:47: why Like get you up in the morning?

00:26:49: Took me long time to realize This but what drives Me Is fear of regret.

00:26:54: I am deathly afraid of being sixty five years old Looking back on life and bein' like Damn!

00:26:58: What could have done?

00:27:00: That actually was My.

00:27:01: Why?

00:27:02: the fear of not having tried while knowing I can do big things.

00:27:07: Have you ever thought about going back to safe?

00:27:10: No, never for a minute.

00:27:11: Never though about quitting

00:27:12: Not For A Minute!

00:27:13: I love what i'm doing and don't think that I want to work with somebody else again.

00:27:17: Um... I like doing it on my own terms.. I like not having too much oversight.

00:27:22: Who is your best presenter both individually and respectively on Masterminds vs at The Fast Art Forum?

00:27:31: So the fast start form is a room full of you know protection this

00:27:35: rapid fire.

00:27:36: You just got to pick an aim.

00:27:36: come on out Tom.

00:27:37: I am so Fast.

00:27:39: start form his prediction focus advisor, so they love them some.

00:27:42: Bobby Samuelson ooh

00:27:44: Bobby's incredible

00:27:45: whole life whole-life masterminds.

00:27:47: i can't name one but like Marty Knackamson it as A legend at guardian

00:27:52: His protege model?

00:27:53: I stole that right outta there he talked about It was like This Is This Guy's a genius?

00:27:57: It's unbelievable.

00:27:57: Yeah, Vince the donor obviously industry legend is trained.

00:28:00: he's trained half that system

00:28:02: there.

00:28:03: There's a reason.

00:28:03: I recruited events right over.

00:28:04: i mean you're part of the reason?

00:28:06: I know vince Is You?

00:28:07: Of course?

00:28:08: you Know Amy Jamerogs an old friend Corey Schneider.

00:28:10: they just have great language and great approachable ways of talking to clients.

00:28:14: so Those are these.

00:28:15: almost like

00:28:16: we can't pick one because there's So much talent out there And they all do different things.

00:28:20: They're All experts of Different Stuff.

00:28:24: Now in the name of education though, I want to hear from you like what are you doing?

00:28:27: In the educational spaces.

00:28:28: I know that You're building out some of that for advisors that are following you.

00:28:32: The most exciting part of my day is also about giving right.

00:28:35: we spend an almost insane amount Of time and resources developing our M plus university.

00:28:40: Yeah My goal i think it's very similar.

00:28:43: your goal It's to help the advisor its To help the person.

00:28:46: i was when i was young in this business.

00:28:48: When i was early in my career There was like three people in my office.

00:28:52: I could go to turns out once a crook.

00:28:55: I love that guy, but he turned into a croak.

00:28:57: there's the guy named Irv Beitler.

00:28:58: He is probably like eighty five years old at this point eighty eighty-five.

00:29:02: He's an older guy.

00:29:03: Who's amazing?

00:29:03: He was a mentor and you would give and given giving that didn't exist.

00:29:07: So i used to get asked a lot Is there are like a way i can ask You all The stuff.

00:29:10: you know when it did A lot of one on One And eventually it just turned into, I did some group sessions.

00:29:15: I called our little university class.

00:29:17: we had office hours and would share all the knowledge.

00:29:20: so now its an actual free online educational series that i do next weeks or my day this comes out will be on next uh... yeah sorry are serious kicking off again here in spring a couple of weeks super excited to Pause that there.

00:29:36: Our series will be kicking off very, very soon.

00:29:39: we're excited to giving away.

00:29:40: it's business planning, business education around how to talk the business owners what they say to them?

00:29:45: What problems are resolving?

00:29:47: why are we solving these problems and what Are These Problems?

00:29:49: where do They mean To Them?

00:29:50: or Do They Mean To You?

00:29:51: right?

00:29:52: It's The Advisors Struggle With.

00:29:54: How Do I Take This Knowledge And This Information?

00:29:56: Give Him A Go To Action.

00:29:58: When Excites Me.

00:29:59: Is Helping Advisors Do That?

00:30:00: i think thats whats missing and i Think Thats One Of The Things That Brings Us Together is because you're on a very, very similar mission.

00:30:06: I think education's super important and when you first start in the business... You know?

00:30:11: ...you don't know what you don't now.

00:30:13: And- I barely know things though!

00:30:15: Sometimes i feel like oh that's new.

00:30:16: how are we this?

00:30:18: far along?

00:30:18: it still knew stuff happening.

00:30:19: yeah well I say from stage all the time but I believe today The differentiated advisor Is In.

00:30:25: The Leadership Business Like AI is already moving down the path to steal a lot of the technical stuff we do, like investing and buying insurance online.

00:30:32: And you can do your documents on line... You've got to do most this stuff yourself.

00:30:37: so why are clients sitting across the table from us?

00:30:40: It's a leadership business!

00:30:43: To be leader, you have to have confidence in conviction.

00:30:46: Conviction lives on a spectrum.

00:30:47: it's not DoYouHabit or DoYouNot its how much conviction that comes from knowing and knowing that you can handle any objection.

00:30:56: And that's where the education piece comes

00:30:57: in.".

00:30:58: So to your point, one of the things... You said to me years ago—and it really stuck with me so many times these days–the thing I like about Tom is he just gives aggressively.

00:31:10: He has good ideas and he shares them.

00:31:12: He'll send ya his slides –he will give y'all all his stuff- and somehow either come back or disturb the industry in a great way….

00:31:20: That's what motivates him!

00:31:22: And there aren't enough people in our business that have that mindset.

00:31:26: People get very protective of what they have, They call it their own IP and come on like who are you kidding?

00:31:32: We're all doing the same thing here.

00:31:34: So yeah That's what motivates me Like.

00:31:36: actually You know they say your most qualified to serve The person that you once were.

00:31:40: I once was a struggling new advisor that Lacked conviction.

00:31:44: as smart As i Was i lacked Conviction.

00:31:46: i wasn't quite sure this really was written books and call it the best kept secret in personal finance.

00:31:55: And I'll shout out from The Tree Chops to whoever will

00:31:57: listen.".

00:31:57: All

00:31:58: right, last one...I want you finish your sentence.

00:32:00: what is the best part of building whole life masterminds?

00:32:05: The best part every day!

00:32:08: i love what i do everyday because i get to work with advisors across the industry.

00:32:12: It's-i'll get thirty year veterans that say That was the Best Talk I've Ever Heard which means a lot To me.

00:32:17: But What Means Even More Is When I See Young Advisors That Are Just Desperately Hanging On Looking For The Next New Thing.

00:32:24: And if you think about the experience of a young advisor, when they start in this business.

00:32:29: They are limited to their agency.

00:32:31: who?

00:32:31: The senior advisors and that agency?

00:32:33: R and twice a year, they have a kickoff meeting for January and then the fall and whoever is on stage as the speaker that day here That's it!

00:32:41: That's there exposure.

00:32:43: so be able to build place or weekly basis daily basis If You Want To have access to the top people in the business from all different companies.

00:32:53: There's no company affiliation that I'm working with everybody, um... To get the best of the best in-house all the time you know and then get them on my stage once a year and build that community.

00:33:04: it is something we haven't seen for this industry for very long time where there isn't any company affiliations or agenda nobody selling anything just educating and sharing ideas collaboratively.

00:33:16: And when i first set out That wasn't the original vision, but it's grown into this very big deal.

00:33:24: And its just so exciting to be at the center of that and I feel there is obligation now for industry to carry us forward in you know...I think will a game changer for the industry This one move the needle forwards.

00:33:35: Long-winded answer.

00:33:37: It's exciting.

00:33:39: do not lock down any kind company or agency walls.

00:33:44: Personally, I think whole life is the best thing since sliced bread.

00:33:47: What you're building is special and love that.

00:33:49: it's agnostic.

00:33:51: The advice i get out of hearing people from other channels compared to what im in.

00:33:57: You know?

00:33:57: Get outta your own way, hear about different viewpoints.

00:34:00: You may or not agree with them but at least you know what those opinions are.

00:34:03: Think you've created a forum for people to aggressively share their ideas And people willing give.

00:34:08: So thank you so much.

00:34:11: Your new house.

00:34:12: I'm excited about your next book, I am excited about Nick's year fast start forum.

00:34:17: you're already starting to work on it.

00:34:18: do wanna tell us where its gonna be?

00:34:20: Yeah so we just booked.

00:34:21: the Phoenician i think is January seventeenth or the twentieth.

00:34:25: Arizona has got great weather that time

00:34:27: of year.

00:34:29: there's only two choices South Florida and Arizona.

00:34:31: if want somewhere warm in january at least somewhat guaranteed But yeah, beautiful resort.

00:34:37: You know as we were going into this I had these event planning team and they're trying to find all of those ways for me save money and maximize profitability in the event.

00:34:45: And i said stop like pump the brakes on that.

00:34:48: We are not doing it At a first-class location, I'm paying speakers.

00:34:54: I'm bringing in the best of the best.

00:34:56: It's not about profitability.

00:34:58: it's about a place that hasn't existed and very long time on our business Which isn't supported?

00:35:03: Like it is supported by sponsors But they're not buying stage time to go.

00:35:06: sell you their newest ride around there annuity or people selling your software from stage.

00:35:11: its meant to be Just People giving great ideas giving value.

00:35:15: A lot of advisors don't don't even charge a fee.

00:35:17: They're just happy to give back to the community because that community gave it to them when they started, like this was really cool thing.

00:35:23: and if there is anything being sold from state?

00:35:25: It's because I've vetted it and i believe it actually helps advisors move their practice forward in the whole life space.

00:35:31: so its gonna be great as we'll have five hundred people in the room, five hundred you know very high-end advisers and then high end experience...it's going to be great!

00:35:38: We are super excited about it.

00:35:39: cheers to you Tom thank for.