Billiards, BDITs, and the Brilliance of Vince D'Addona

00:00:00: There's a lot of noise in this business and a lotta people telling you how to do it who really haven't done before.

00:00:05: I've been fortunate over my entire career, I had the chance build or grow make mistakes into ultimately learn from some of the best people on this industry.

00:00:13: so now its time for me give back Welcome to Office Hours.

00:00:16: My name is Kuldeep Madan And This Is Where I Sit Down With The Smartest Most Interesting People I Know.

00:00:21: You can expect real conversations about what it actually takes to do this work well.

00:00:25: There's going be no fluff, just ideas truthful perspective and the kind of talk that helps advisors think bigger and serve better from advisers.

00:00:33: for advisors.

00:00:34: my door is always open.

00:00:36: today's guest has been Sedona.

00:00:38: All opinions expressed by the program participants are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinions of their respective parent companies, affiliates or the companies with which they're affiliated.

00:00:47: Investments or strategies mentioned in this may be suitable for you but should make your own independent decisions regarding them.

00:00:52: This material does NOT take into account your particular investment objectives financial situations or needs.

00:00:57: it is not intended as recommendations appropriate to you.

00:00:59: You should strongly consider seeking advice from your own investment advisor.

00:01:16: Vince really glad that I'm here.

00:01:17: let's get into.

00:01:19: I think i'd like to kick off by telling a little story of how we met.

00:01:22: Would that be okay with you?

00:01:23: I know the story, it's ok

00:01:25: It's OK are you sure all

00:01:27: right?

00:01:27: really?

00:01:27: I don't want You To Be Embarrassed By What You Said To Me.

00:01:30: All Right For Those People That Don't Know.

00:01:33: Out There Vince Was Featured In The Forbes

00:01:38: Financial Security Advisors

00:01:40: And They Had.

00:01:40: She Has A Feature You Know.

00:01:41: Feature D member

00:01:43: had A picture.

00:01:44: I was Number Ten in The Country School.

00:01:46: Very cool.

00:01:46: So I looked at that and was like, well this guy must know some things.

00:01:49: And i made a mission to find out way To meet him!

00:01:52: And you nobody then knew them.

00:01:54: which weird because You know it's small world.

00:01:56: we should probably all Know each other...I read through his bio His information there.

00:02:00: It said he is member of forum four hundred.

00:02:03: so I applied to join.

00:02:05: They told me absolutely not.. I went around calling the members board members of Fonseca that worked with them.

00:02:14: And I got my way in, they finally invited me and said we've some good news or bad news?

00:02:17: The good news was the next meeting wasn't like a day from then.

00:02:22: so i make all these travel plans arrangements hop on a chopper to get there for first meeting On the First Day and the first guy in the first seat is Vince Dodona.

00:02:34: Hi Vince!

00:02:35: I'm excited to meet you.

00:02:37: What do You Do?

00:02:39: Do you want to tell them what you said?

00:02:41: Don't ever talk to me again.

00:02:43: Literally never speak to me, again.

00:02:46: um that was a little off-putting.

00:02:48: so I guess i'm curious and I really wanna know What did you actually think of me That first time we met?

00:02:53: be honest You know well you said that you were in the premium finance business.

00:02:57: That's what you do.

00:02:58: A lot of businesses And my experience Of premium finance practitioners or that most of them are working in the world of half truths.

00:03:07: There's some stuff in their illustrations, they don't make sense to me.

00:03:11: I think there is danger using certain products in a mix and so i kinda painted you with very broad brush And im sorry for it again probably but if somebody else But Im sorry I did that When we made presentation he said ok That makes sense.

00:03:31: I think thats different cut of the premium finance world.

00:03:36: And we talked for a bit, and after a little while I said okay i have somebody to talk with you one my clients...and gave you literally the hardest client they had that was most knowledgeable about interest rates!

00:03:50: You handled him magnificently.

00:03:53: he's challenging but it ended up being great.

00:03:56: We did some business..we got a ton of referrals from.

00:03:59: I'm in.

00:04:05: and what does that mean?

00:04:07: Well, because all along the way you were going.

00:04:09: I want you to join our organization.

00:04:11: I wish we'd be part of us.

00:04:12: blah blah blah You know And I was resistant and then you would.

00:04:18: I don't wanna say you wore me down Because

00:04:22: Wait a kind of wore you down

00:04:23: if your persistence

00:04:24: is one of my traits.

00:04:25: Yes,

00:04:25: and it was worthwhile because i think um in a very exciting place I have a very close friend in the business who knows what I'm up to.

00:04:33: And he said, Vince if are you and your stage of career?

00:04:36: And thinking about how you're going live last fifteen twenty years in the businesses You're on the right place.

00:04:42: It's uh...I think it's a shout out for our dear friend Dave Mozica.

00:04:46: One hundred percent

00:04:46: Which i feel like if we here can you want give a little plug for Currents?

00:04:49: Yeah

00:04:50: so also own financial technology company.

00:04:54: The name is Currents And what it does is, it helps advisors help clients gather free cash flow because all wealth has created out of free cash.

00:05:03: You know if you're dealing with a wealthy inheritor than their parent or grandfather created.

00:05:09: their wealth was free cashflow.

00:05:12: so we teach advise advisers how to deal in the world and free cash-flow helped clients accumulate money an astonishing rate.

00:05:19: And while America saves at a rate of about four percent of income, that you can find out on the Federal Reserve website called FRED in St.

00:05:27: Louis Federal Reserve... We are member—we call them client members or strategists and advisors or strategist.

00:05:36: so their members are saving in excess twenty-percent if they have to tax cash flow after very short time in this system because it creates behavioral interrupts.

00:05:44: That's where magic happens.

00:05:48: Why do you think people need that behavioral interrupt?

00:05:50: What is wrong with America's ability to save and improve on cash flow?

00:05:54: we live in a world Where everything colludes the.

00:05:59: take your money away from him there.

00:06:01: There's The number changes periodically, but We are exposed to somewhere north of ten thousand marketing messages a day.

00:06:09: Everything from the Nike swoosh on our t-shirt, to product placement in your favorite movies – if they're driving outies in a movie, Audi paid to be there.

00:06:21: so you say oh!

00:06:22: They're driving an Audi.

00:06:22: I think now it's all subconscious or unconscious but we are bombarded continuously and behaviorally, we all biologically predetermined to consume our money.

00:06:36: Like if you go back ten thousand years... You know?

00:06:40: If your a caveman that's ten-thousand would be cavemen.

00:06:43: but yeah Go back twenty thousand years!

00:06:44: Go back one hundred thousand

00:06:45: years!!

00:06:46: If you caught the woolly mammoth and slayed The Woolly Mammoth And you fed your tribe..You fattened up on That Woolly mammoths.

00:06:54: And the reason why is because they may not be another woolly mammoth for weeks.

00:06:57: Um, and so our... The early brain controls consumption.

00:07:04: So we just consume it.

00:07:06: same reason that what takes extraordinary discipline to diet an exercise?

00:07:11: It's the same reason where you take herculean effort to budget.

00:07:14: Because this early brain telling us to be slothful.

00:07:21: we are predetermined to do that.

00:07:24: And so budgeting just fundamentally doesn't work and people get into

00:07:27: trouble.".

00:07:29: Okay, I think what the obvious takeaway for everybody is.

00:07:32: you're a vast wealth of knowledge —you know—a little or maybe a lot about virtually everything... ...and i've spent A LOT OF THE LAST THREE YEARS WITH YOU….

00:07:41: …AND I'VE GOTTEN TO LEARN A LOT.

00:07:42: BUT I THINK WHAT WOULD BE A BETTER, THE BEST STARTING PLACE FOR US IS REALLY GETTING INTO SOME OF THAT ORIGIN STORY.

00:07:48: I'm not trying to make you out like a supervillain.

00:07:50: Sure, we'll get there and you are kind of bald.

00:07:52: Superheroes have origin stories too

00:07:54: but... It's thinking villain when it thought about you for some reason!

00:07:56: I don't know why- But

00:07:57: that's okay.

00:07:58: yeah i can live with them All right.

00:07:59: tell me a little bit about the history.

00:08:01: let's not spend all our time talking about carriers but I want to know deeper down earlier in life how the heck did you become man you're today?

00:08:09: I grew up lower middle class in The Bronx.

00:08:12: my brother says its'notha South Bronx.

00:08:16: There's

00:08:17: an actual line that defines if it was the South Bronx.

00:08:19: It sort

00:08:19: of kind, you know.

00:08:21: where I went is really the south Bronx.

00:08:23: and then my father had enough money to buy a house He bought in the northeast Bronx.

00:08:28: And the reason why?

00:08:29: Is because he wanted to be into one fair zone so we can get down to the office Manhattan.

00:08:32: Because if he went to Queens Where by the way The House would have been worth five times more than it wasn't the Bronx were.

00:08:37: i live today A wonderful borough big fan Big

00:08:40: Fan.

00:08:42: So to save what was effective, because most people on this call don't know that if you change subway lines like he went from the BMT to the IRT.

00:08:50: To the IND You had a pay-a second time.

00:08:53: That wasn't until I Was probably A teenager when they changed that but you would have to lay out two fares.

00:09:00: so He didn't want to do that.

00:09:02: we moved to the Northeast Bronx and I was fortunate enough to go to Bronx High School of Science where I excelled.

00:09:08: And then I went to Cornell University where, um...I thought it was gonna be an easy run because it was easy in high school.

00:09:15: Which that's what a New York City specialized high schools very special place.

00:09:19: and uh- I think i finished the top five percent of this school at the time.

00:09:23: Um..and Cornell is different!

00:09:24: Then did something that probably dumb but worked out okay as I learned how shoot pool And I worked very hard to be very good.

00:09:33: The game that we played was a fourteen-one continuous pocket billiards, it's not played as much anymore most of the games like eight bowl or nine ball these days.

00:09:42: but George Fells author wrote book and in that book about pool he calls straight pull combination chess and World War three rolled into one.

00:09:55: So, one of the things that happens in that game is you spend a lot time with A person.

00:10:01: You have to get to hundred and fifty typically or hundred twenty-five And...you learn alot about people.

00:10:07: I learned alot about peoples..I also learnt alot about hustling Which is another story.

00:10:13: But um That's what i did college!

00:10:15: I literally didn't go to class which was tough at Cornell Uh....and I shot pool somewhere between four and eight hours per day depending on today.

00:10:25: And so, medical school was not in the cards.

00:10:28: I got out in nineteen seventy-nine without a prospect for job but wanted to sell because i knew that could do it.

00:10:36: What did you study at college?

00:10:38: Biochemistry

00:10:39: and somehow draw line from there sales.

00:10:44: So had girlfriend who is in the ag school Who said he really oughta be taking some business courses.

00:10:52: for some ironic reason, the business courses were in the agriculture school at Cornell.

00:10:57: Of course logical right?

00:11:00: I took these business courses and i took some stuff on commodity trading as one of my courses.

00:11:04: that was fun uh...and wanted to be financial sales because they saw the unlimited upside.

00:11:12: but those who are old enough remember nineteen seventy nine is end-of-a decade where market produced a zero percent rate return.

00:11:21: after seventy-two, seventy three, seventy four market dip by forty percent of their bouts and came back to even.

00:11:28: So I wanted the sell and had a go hunt around for sales job.

00:11:32: then i sent out innumerable resumes And uh you want whole story?

00:11:40: You tell me

00:11:41: it's interesting.

00:11:42: so its one those embarrassing moments like saying I never wanna talk to you again.

00:11:48: So, so...

00:11:49: Yes and then definitely need every detail

00:11:50: okay?

00:11:53: And remember these are the days where you have like landlines right.

00:11:56: there's no cell phones or anything like that.

00:11:58: So sending out all of these resumes and i finally got a bite.

00:12:03: it was August of nineteen seventy nine And there was an office up on Fordham Road in the Bronx, and I knew I had that appointment.

00:12:16: So I figured they give me an appointment to.

00:12:18: I'm in.

00:12:19: so That night before the night before my girlfriend calls me up and says you're not gonna believe this.

00:12:24: i am Sitting In My Office.

00:12:26: she's a clerk typist for The summer.

00:12:28: yeah We Had typewriters.

00:12:30: She Was A Clerk Typist?

00:12:31: She Looks Up From Her Desk And Sees The Woman Who Used To babysit For her When She Was Teenager.

00:12:37: okay,

00:12:39: and They Talked.

00:12:40: They Talk and You know, they get around to me and at Audrey was the woman's name.

00:12:48: And what she says?

00:12:49: Well you now my husband is looking to hire somebody for the insurance business so he should call.

00:12:55: So it's terrible.

00:12:58: So Ellen calls me At night and I said Insurance.

00:13:04: i'd rather have brain cancer than being in the insurance businesses and I had an appointment this week Had a brokerage firm.

00:13:12: That's where you

00:13:13: went?

00:13:14: I said exactly that.

00:13:15: I will always remember what he said, because every soul can even remember to eat your words.

00:13:20: so... I did

00:13:21: it a lot and

00:13:22: get it.

00:13:23: Periodically Every ten years i'd say do that.

00:13:25: So go up this appointment And they have two hours.

00:13:28: The guy says You're incredible!

00:13:31: Can't send for an interview.

00:13:34: What are we doing right now?

00:13:35: He said Well there is like pre-interview.

00:13:37: I had to send you downtown To real interview.

00:13:42: He's about, I can't send you.

00:13:45: What do ya mean?

00:13:46: You can't sent

00:13:46: me.".

00:13:46: Well he goes.

00:13:47: well you don't have any sales experience.

00:13:49: I said whoa!

00:13:51: I read that book Catch-Twenty Two.

00:13:53: I didn't get a sales job and it couldn't sell the experience.

00:13:56: but if i dont' have a salesjob so im screwed.

00:13:59: He says oh no there were two industries which would hire in two seconds.

00:14:03: The first is you could sell cars for years then come back to rent.

00:14:08: You could sell insurance.

00:14:09: I said, insurance?

00:14:10: He goes yeah.

00:14:11: I get home.

00:14:12: I'm waiting for the end of

00:14:32: day.".

00:14:40: I told my parents that it was going to do this, and they said you can't.

00:14:44: Why?

00:14:44: Because my mother happened have two cousins That were raging alcoholics who sold insurance.

00:14:50: And she's connected that if i sell insurance i'm gonna become a raging alcoholic.

00:14:54: Absolutely logical logical

00:14:56: totally logical.

00:14:57: and so i said well You know i'm Gonna Do This Anyway.

00:15:00: and So i went into the business and what i what i discovered Was that our Business is infinitely Diverse.

00:15:08: It's as technical and is insightful.

00:15:11: As you want it to be Now, he could be doing kitchen table sales for the rest of your natural life.

00:15:16: But I gravitated into the business insurance estate planning realm very quickly.

00:15:21: I got my CLU in CHFC an eighty-three.

00:15:24: i Got my masters of science and financial services in eighty six.

00:15:28: What year did you say?

00:15:29: You started seventy

00:15:30: nine

00:15:30: And so right away you somehow managed to get yourself in front of state planning opportunities

00:15:36: though Yes, but the way I did it is almost impossible to do today.

00:15:41: In New York they had something called The Industrial Directory.

00:15:44: It was every business... Is

00:15:46: that a phone book?

00:15:47: ...it was effectively a phonebook.

00:15:49: Had the name of owner or company and his contact information Obvious phone number No emails.

00:15:54: This like ancient history.

00:15:57: The internet existed yet But okay

00:16:00: Arpanet might have existed.

00:16:01: You know, I would go on Monday and I would call into the industrial directory.

00:16:07: And I would fall in to neighborhoods that nobody will going through.

00:16:11: South Bronx hunts point.

00:16:14: you know a lot of a lot contractors a lot metal fabricators All sorts of industry down there not the food industry which is also down here.

00:16:23: But you know?

00:16:24: I made phone calls and i would show up with my Ford Pinto initially and yeah, because exploding cars are always useful ideal.

00:16:32: And then I use my dad's car.

00:16:34: And I would go to these neighborhoods and park the car and I'd go in.

00:16:38: they say You know your car may not be there when you get out half an hour ago.

00:16:42: It's okay.

00:16:43: anyway

00:16:44: Take it have it.

00:16:45: so II made a business out of doing that and one of The people I met I remember vividly was Perlman ironworks.

00:16:54: Alan Perlmann happened to go to Cornell.

00:16:57: he happened to like me and you connect with the subcontractors trade association in New York, I had a list of warm leads or quasi-warm leads that they called on.

00:17:11: You can't be seeing business owners unless you really learn the trade.

00:17:17: Who was there?

00:17:18: who sat across from you helped figure out what say?

00:17:21: Learned the language learned.

00:17:22: these clients are asking for their needs.

00:17:25: I was very blessed because the organization that I was in, it's called S&W Agency.

00:17:32: It is an agency of The Guardian Life and now would be called New York RHB And there were five general agents.

00:17:38: one of them Was expert on that space.

00:17:42: He run classes with a firm called R &R Newkirk.

00:17:45: Like you may remember forty six years back There was a firm named R & R Newkerk Training manuals one of which was called a survey of advanced sales and almost cold business insurance And every week we would do it.

00:17:58: chapter me in some other guys that were hired.

00:18:01: by the way, I'm the only One left In that group who's still in the business.

00:18:05: It's

00:18:05: only forty six years and seven months ago.

00:18:08: Yeah got it

00:18:09: and most

00:18:09: people do retire at some point in case you're not allowed to.

00:18:12: i know That was part of our career?

00:18:13: No im not gonna retire.

00:18:14: okay I'll work until may lose my marbles, but the

00:18:18: some would argue

00:18:20: nice.

00:18:21: But after every chapter there was an exercise.

00:18:23: Yeah go call on people and have this conversation.

00:18:26: That's

00:18:27: brilliant

00:18:27: it was great.

00:18:28: And so and and i'll tell you something called eat thee The.

00:18:34: You know sometimes people ask why do I have all the designations?

00:18:36: I haven't let in.

00:18:38: Sometimes when I'm in the mood and I'm In the mood now I say that's penance for screwing up college.

00:18:45: like I know, I'm smart.

00:18:47: I knew it could have done

00:18:48: well.".

00:18:55: And so part of proving that was getting the designations

00:19:03: Okay.

00:19:03: So there's a few cans of orange.

00:19:05: like you've opened up a few topics here That i think we can go down.

00:19:08: um...that are interesting to me.

00:19:11: You were earlier in your career and learning from somebody.

00:19:13: Now you're the guy who is doing teaching.

00:19:16: What happened there, why is this so interesting to you?

00:19:18: Is it just penance.

00:19:19: It can't just.

00:19:20: no not anymore.

00:19:21: I mean was in the way back when I was excelling at education.

00:19:27: um i think You're very much like me In this regard.

00:19:32: There are advisors that we know.

00:19:33: you and I Know who play This game what We do for a living as A zero-sum Game.

00:19:39: notice if I teach you something I lose Something by having taught you.

00:19:43: yep

00:19:44: And unfortunately, I would say that's more than fifty percent of the business.

00:19:51: That is the least true thing about the business because the marketplace is vast and in every market if you're working with executives believe me most them don't own life insurance.

00:20:03: Most have a financial plan.

00:20:05: If your'e working with physicians or doctors other then getting stupid advice from internet which we won't go into where they get it.

00:20:14: Other than that, they do it yourselfers.

00:20:16: They need advice.

00:20:19: Truly if people actually knew what they were doing you and I would not have a career

00:20:22: now

00:20:23: right?

00:20:24: So the marketplace is vast.

00:20:25: i can't sell everybody.

00:20:26: in United States there's uh You know hundred fifty million individuals who need our products and services And I haven't made much of a dent in that.

00:20:37: and If I taught the entire industry they wouldn't make as much of an dent.

00:20:41: so teaching First of all, when you teach somebody what you know.

00:20:45: You get better at whatever that is.

00:20:49: and I'd say a lot of my expertise comes from training people who then ask questions.

00:20:56: they have to be very thoughtful about the answer with A lot of it i Know.

00:21:00: but every so often we have to think a little bit About yeah in our life.

00:21:04: And Then now What We do Is Puzzle?

00:21:06: Well What We Do In The Face Of A Client Situation As We Solve A puzzle?

00:21:11: Yep

00:21:12: They have and this you know, it's repeats like if you buy a few get.

00:21:16: I think springbok is the big puzzle company but all The pieces of cut the same just to pictures different right.

00:21:21: so he still got.

00:21:22: put that damn thing together.

00:21:23: And Every time I went into a situation.

00:21:27: There may be a pattern That I might employ But the piece on the table maybe a little different with pieces on the game board and then you play the game and If you do well Clients are better protected in the event of a divorce or lawsuit, transfer taxes.

00:21:42: Or an even other contingencies like sequence return problems and long-term care events disability.

00:21:51: you know protection products critical And I think unfortunately lot industry is leaving to protect space going into money management which lovely but doesn't solve people's problem.

00:22:01: So, I guess let me ask you.

00:22:04: You have probably encountered every type of advisor?

00:22:07: We've talked about a few different characteristics and traits of successful ones.

00:22:11: What separates an adviser which just keeps getting better from the one who are stuck?

00:22:18: I mean other than native intelligence.

00:22:20: Let's assume they're all at equal level of

00:22:24: intelligence.

00:22:25: They not.

00:22:25: but i think there is book called drive people.

00:22:31: People in our business Have to be willing To Drive Forward and they have to understand that the future is not gonna wait for them.

00:22:40: The laws change all of time, people's client situations change all the time.

00:22:48: it's not static.

00:22:50: so in order continue play our game through the advisory game we have do stay abreast on sometimes ahead.

00:22:59: what happening marketplace like when I meet somebody who was forty five years old I don't think of them as the forty-five year old.

00:23:06: The sixty five they're going to become, and the eighty-five are all... Their future self?

00:23:10: ...the future self.

00:23:12: And by the way that reason why am able move so fast with clients is because i bring their future self into the present.

00:23:18: then have him go.

00:23:19: Oh!

00:23:19: How do

00:23:20: you do this?

00:23:21: It's all in language.

00:23:22: it' s how we speak for people.

00:23:28: Its part art parts science Everybody you meet.

00:23:37: they have a mix of assets, the mix of structures.

00:23:41: And if you're good at this business and been around awhile or if your not around for awhile but know somebody who is then work with them there's probably almost certain future that those individuals are facing like it very predictable than their investing money in buying term insurance where they had big businesses no-insurance uh... If they paying lots income taxes any other things You know that their wealth is going to be impaired one way or another.

00:24:10: Like you and I know that really, really well there are concerns the people have And they're a concern's.

00:24:21: The People Are

00:24:21: Okay?

00:24:24: A concerned somebody has.

00:24:25: Is i gotta pay for my kids college education?

00:24:29: That's a tiny little snippet of the world but They Have a Concerns Gotta Be taken Care Of But A Concerned That People Are Fundamentally, as human beings.

00:24:40: we have families.

00:24:40: We care about We have businesses things that we own That we want to succeed in and continue to have grow?

00:24:48: We have.

00:24:49: fundamentally we don't wanna pay taxes right.

00:24:53: And when do we not want to pay taxes?

00:24:55: well Not just in the moment but over our entire lifetime.

00:24:58: When you will take care of our family's?

00:24:59: yeah In the moment for sure But overall entire lifetimes.

00:25:03: You know I don't have to work anymore But I do it because I want to improve my kids' lives.

00:25:09: And most people, when asked to consider that and think about it they'll go yeah you know i'm into that...and they have concerns like is my level of wealth going be impaired in such a way that i'm trading off my current situation for my kid's thirty years from now?

00:25:26: So good planning becomes really important!

00:25:30: How your design plans become very important.

00:25:32: people to understand that future, that they're likely going to be living in and a new possibility.

00:25:39: And then go I want them if they said it wanted?

00:25:44: Then you say OK this is how you get there.

00:25:47: They don't make sense to me when your done.

00:25:50: You know as far as let's call the selling part.

00:25:56: once people got that product solutions are secondary.

00:26:00: So what exactly are we selling then, in that instance?

00:26:05: And I asked this because- We're selling.

00:26:06: ...I've had this conversation with you on a different frame where...we questioned is selling good or bad?

00:26:11: and you have very interesting viewpoint of it but i think thats really driving towards.

00:26:14: Okay.

00:26:15: so for most people..and this was when my parents came from the.

00:26:20: you know You can see things like insurance salesman there.

00:26:23: no better than car use car salesmen right?

00:26:26: For most people way selling occurs to them asking people to do something that they don't want to do and convincing them, enforcing it anyway leaving them resentful.

00:26:39: That's what the world is...that why when you walk off a car lot You think that you lost in the car dealer won?

00:26:50: Not at all.

00:26:51: Everybody won!

00:26:51: You got the car you wanted And then you got money.

00:26:55: but The way this occurs for people Is disgusting activity Ontological selling ontological being based in Being like who you be.

00:27:08: is

00:27:09: it the world?

00:27:10: Is about inventing a new future that somebody wants to live into?

00:27:15: So buying a car for people do back-to-car salesman.

00:27:18: It's not about getting your car That drives around.

00:27:20: it's actually about survival because if on our car You can't get at work and most of the country I mean we're New York now, so you can get around public transportation But if you want to go see somebody that's twenty miles away.

00:27:30: That's a hell of an Uber drive You're.

00:27:35: the car is about a survival.

00:27:37: It's about success.

00:27:38: if you are salesman without a car A little different now in The New York area, but if your anywhere else in the country?

00:27:44: You don't have a car you'll gonna

00:27:46: die.

00:27:46: Yeah

00:27:47: because you can sell something cuz you can get to where you got it.

00:27:50: Now of course zoom changes up and appreciate this.

00:27:52: appreciate that In order for great car salesmen to do well they had Car buyer envision a future in which they're in that car achieving all the things.

00:28:06: They want to achieve it.

00:28:06: their life.

00:28:07: Kind of goofy, but that's a tangible.

00:28:09: when we do we deal on the intangible world.

00:28:12: so We dealing with paper?

00:28:14: With dealing with events were dealing with things that are not currently known.

00:28:21: Primarily I would say Grace one events.

00:28:25: okay death is gonna occur.

00:28:28: Okay, I was gonna say likely to occur but no it's going to occur

00:28:30: guaranteed.

00:28:30: We just don't know when.

00:28:31: guaranteed Usually preceded by a long-term care event or disability.

00:28:35: yeah okay If you have lots of money You will get sued not with the hundred percent certainty But

00:28:44: pretty

00:28:44: good chance.

00:28:47: if you are married There is greater than fifty percent chance.

00:28:50: we're not going to be.

00:28:52: So all those things or grace one events, what we do really is protect against those so people can live their lives.

00:29:01: And the better we are at expressing the dangers that they're living into not like scaring them.

00:29:06: but you know?

00:29:07: People want what they've got and wanna hold on to it.

00:29:12: if there were things that you can protect against allowing him keep with a guy's big deal in and you see me do this called even from client I'll say if i put all my clients They would tell you, they would rather have a one hundred percent probability of getting to ninety five percent.

00:29:27: Of their target wealth than the possibility of getting two hundred percent and likelihood at getting to last maybe even less than fifty percent right?

00:29:34: And I go okay, I'm in.

00:29:37: it's just that simple.

00:29:39: yeah i mean You gotta...you Have To Be Really Great With People.

00:29:43: You Have To Listen..You Have To Acknowledge What People Say..You Can't Cut Them Off..You HAVE TO ALLOW THEM TO BE THEM but THEY HAVE TO GET that you get them as a person.

00:29:56: Let's say I'm actually me, right?

00:30:00: And I mean from not quite yesterday but day one in the business just got in and I am twenty-one or twenty two years old...I'm in New York City.. I don't know anybody who has money.

00:30:10: what do i do?

00:30:12: how did we get good at this business?

00:30:14: where to start

00:30:15: the easiest way?

00:30:19: well okay so your very personal.

00:30:20: so it helps.

00:30:22: like You

00:30:23: didn't know what I was like back then.

00:30:24: That is true, I'm assuming.

00:30:26: First

00:30:26: of all enough but...

00:30:27: First of All Enough Is Good Enough?

00:30:29: Okay But if you're there's two things.

00:30:34: the first is If you have an opportunity in front Of you that way larger than What you can normally handle you Have to partner with people who Know that business.

00:30:42: Okay, really important.

00:30:44: And by the way that individual you partner with has to be very respectful of You.

00:30:48: I've seen joint business partners totally decimate somebody's ego who is like just trying To learn and do some business.

00:30:55: so you got me really great With a joint-business partner.

00:30:56: So if you had partnered with me thirty years ago Twenty years ago How long even business?

00:31:04: Fifteen Years ago whenever it was You know your actually my client Like i have to treat you Really well, so that way there's a number two and the number three case.

00:31:15: That we work on sure But I also have to know my trade So I could do the business on the person were talking about.

00:31:21: so partnering joint-business is critical To people.

00:31:25: success.

00:31:28: The other thing Is?

00:31:31: Is that you actually have to be made aware of where the opportunities lie.

00:31:37: And one of the things that you and i do at madame plus is We invite brokers to think about the people in their lives that they otherwise wouldn't have touched, because there are outsized individuals or they're complicated.

00:31:51: They have unusual circumstances.

00:31:54: so we invite them to think of it and lo-and-behold...they get em'.

00:32:00: They find em' Everywhere!

00:32:03: The marketplace as I said earlier is vast.

00:32:06: It's just vast And you know what?

00:32:11: I'm not sure this is true because there's no evidence that it was true, but its a great saying.

00:32:14: Is when Columbus came to Hispaniola the natives didn't know what they saw cause they didnt' know ships They didnt have sail...they didn´t know what their were..They found out pretty quickly in Columbus later.

00:32:27: But What you Know is always referential to your past.

00:32:31: So Its only When You and I share That new possibility with an advisor or broker that they go.

00:32:38: oh i have three people who fit that bill.

00:32:41: They would not have thought of them.

00:32:42: they would've been blind to the opportunity.

00:32:45: so we created for them.

00:32:46: So Going back to your situation, you're new in the business.

00:32:50: what do you?

00:32:50: Do?

00:32:51: well You got a hang out with people who?

00:32:54: That they say you are the pride of five People.

00:32:55: you hang out right.

00:32:57: so you had to hang out With people who has some vision so they can invite you To think differently so that way you could be part Of that group.

00:33:05: and voila.

00:33:06: so you get two things going on.

00:33:08: you Have people Who Are good to you and respect you And end up You know doing business with you and training you in the act of doing that business.

00:33:16: And then you have people who are gonna expand your worldview.

00:33:19: so that way?

00:33:19: You can identify more and more other people.

00:33:21: That you want to do business with.

00:33:23: boom

00:33:24: How did you learn that?

00:33:25: how did you learned?

00:33:25: this would be a thing

00:33:26: and people ask me I don't really know it's.

00:33:29: um, I You know i've been very lucky In The Business.

00:33:36: uh You Know advisors like To Seek Out Mentors.

00:33:43: But I've Been and I Said This When Like when I did my little speech for the NAPIC, and then got to Hall of Fame.

00:33:49: I've been very lucky in that mentors have sought me out because they saw something in me... That would make their time energy money an opportunity worthwhile.

00:33:58: You

00:33:58: didn't seek me out?

00:34:00: ...I didn't know you!

00:34:01: I had to seek YOU

00:34:01: out?!

00:34:02: And then you rejected ME immediately!

00:34:04: Yes but look how viciously almost!

00:34:06: Yes it was vicious.

00:34:07: It's mean I apologize eighteen million times.

00:34:09: everytime he tells a story AND Look how close we are now There ya go.

00:34:14: It's

00:34:14: a miracle.

00:34:15: I think part of it is, I take rejection.

00:34:17: well and when these newer advisors are out there trying to even find the mentor—I think its hard getting those five people around you was not easy.

00:34:26: Well media acrodias all over place has no doubt but yet so if it matters do your work at that?

00:34:34: You join organizations or pay dues.

00:34:37: now theres two great lies.

00:34:41: they're told every advisor will come into business.

00:34:44: Only

00:34:45: two?

00:34:46: Two big ones, the first one is that you can come into this business and never have to spend any money.

00:34:57: It's not true at all!

00:35:05: And it really fits in here.

00:35:11: so You have to participate in industry organizations, NAFA, Fonseca.

00:35:21: Your local chapters of the estate planning council because you end up rubbing elbows with people who are going make a difference in your life.

00:35:26: The generation that's around today –the youngest generation– they don't do that!

00:35:32: Part of it is COVID I think like nobody wants beer…I'm gonna work from my basement and mom's basement or something.

00:35:40: The reality is, you don't progress if your doing that.

00:35:43: You have to interact rub elbows with people who are successful and If you're not a jerk they end up adopting you taking in teaching stuff.

00:35:52: then life goes on.

00:35:58: It's the as I've said been very blessed many ways by accident Becoming part of an agency in the Guardian system that I helped grow to the number one agency In The Guardian System.

00:36:15: Uh, the people better they are good People-the people who were managing the Agency Were Good People and They Wanted To train me to be a great advisor?

00:36:23: i don't know if That's true across the industry right..i just...I Don'T Know If That'S True Across the Industry.

00:36:29: My experience is that it's not from.

00:36:31: but there are you know I don't Know Everybody.

00:36:34: um And then You know, I had a quest to do.

00:36:39: well.

00:36:40: And that doesn't mean sitting around and doing nothing...I worked hard early!

00:36:49: Early-early.

00:36:50: i didn't work hard because I don't understand.

00:36:54: the business is very mathematical That if you see people then they will do business with them as many people do, I lied to my managers and said oh i made a hundred calls today.

00:37:04: I didn't get anybody on the

00:37:05: phone.".

00:37:05: And they would go.

00:37:06: okay.

00:37:07: but we know that was nonsense

00:37:15: right?

00:37:15: You also spent a lot of time and energy getting yourself educated.

00:37:19: being around the right people is super helpful-I'm sure you saw them with designations letters and all that...you mentioned earlier.. That's the

00:37:26: penance part!

00:37:27: I had approved that I could do it.

00:37:29: which ones matter?

00:37:30: new advisors going out there trying to figure what the study, where do I start?

00:37:34: Which ones.

00:37:37: The question is What Do They Study or

00:37:40: which designations should they go get?

00:37:42: Which pieces of education did they chase and Where Should They Want To Try And Get That Knowledge?

00:37:45: besides Going into the Finsacas in the NAFTA meetings?

00:37:48: those are absolutely helpful but with a set Of Letters and i know you've got alphabets too.

00:37:52: But

00:37:54: well the way ive crafted my educational journey picked up designations that fit in the marketplace, so I was in.

00:38:06: The reason why have a CLU and CHFC is because they were selling life insurance?

00:38:12: And I hadn't really gotten to place where every client was business owner.

00:38:17: okay then when started doing work at the business space by the way accredited state planner AEP i think it's not there Early on but I got the CEX paid certified exit planner designation.

00:38:36: That opened my eyes to now.

00:38:38: I was doing all the sub-planning in the exit planning space, But the overall wrapper of Exit Planning was I was blind too.

00:38:47: like that's the cohesive Like everybody has to get out their business either toes up or standing up

00:38:52: yep

00:38:54: Either voluntarily or involuntarily.

00:38:55: so So the umbrella of exit planning is important.

00:39:01: so anything like deferred compensation, qualified plans executive benefit all that fits inside that umbrella.

00:39:08: And throughout this I'm learning the estate planning business which brought me to the AEP.

00:39:13: the creditors stay planner and That's why when you see my signature box it says AEP distinguished because i'm actually in a hole of fame for the NAPIC.

00:39:23: thats how its designated.

00:39:25: How many holofames are even?

00:39:26: Two.

00:39:26: Oh, okay just two?

00:39:28: Just to are there any more that we can get into?

00:39:30: I didn't get you in the morning.

00:39:30: if You find one for me out

00:39:32: i'm gonna make us a Hall of Fame.

00:39:34: Okay, but don't let's

00:39:35: go

00:39:38: first ever inductee.

00:39:39: so The then you know as I aged People started having To Make Retirement Distribution Decisions and I stayed away from That Business Because it's a scary business from an advisor, like if you're conscious.

00:39:56: If your conscience is scary because in the accumulation phase of life.

00:40:02: You get eight percent and six percent end up with some amount money mm-hmm.

00:40:05: But when you get to retirement and your paycheck stops?

00:40:08: You have to pay bills yeah.

00:40:10: And so you can't afford to make any mistakes after retirement.

00:40:14: no and I didn't have the tools To be able to say this somebody i'm gonna plan your distribution model.

00:40:22: okay

00:40:23: Now I do.

00:40:25: I have financial software, an education and that's from the RICP, the Retirement Income Certified Professional.

00:40:31: Okay.

00:40:32: And then there was a gap in business planning That iIwas doing...and it was this realm of growing businesses and something called value driving.

00:40:46: The designation most noted for is the CEPA certified exit planning advisor.

00:40:52: Now I have no interest in being the value-driving business.

00:40:55: I don't want to be in the fee business, I wanna be selling protection products but my position is I always wanted know what i dont'know not to be super expert at it But they had enough knowledge to speak with me because My job and career are about helping people get their stuff handled And so there's a lot of elements if you're a business owner.

00:41:19: So I've crafted My education to match the career.

00:41:26: The education didn't create the career.

00:41:29: The career created it, the desire for the education.

00:41:32: Now are we so hoping you make fun.

00:41:33: of fact I've got like twenty letters with my name and that's fine but quite frankly The truth is you get value out of the education that I've got, which is why am here.

00:41:43: That's exactly the reason You're Here because i've learned more from you in the last three years than i had From anybody and maybe possibly everybody else combined.

00:41:51: it's very sweet And It could be true who knows but?

00:41:55: You know i'm and i'm committed to making a difference In your life just like i'm Committed To Making A Difference Than Anybody i touch Because again we can't none Of Us Can Sell Them all And it's not a zero-sum Game.

00:42:08: Okay, so one of the best things I've ever seen you do when you're on with a client is You tell them what estate planning?

00:42:16: Is you explain to them.

00:42:17: What it actually means?

00:42:18: Can you walk us through what that means?

00:42:20: sure?

00:42:21: So the actual narrative is When i teach attorneys accounts and life insurance producers about Estate Planning And I asked and I'm gonna Do this pretty much for betham and I ask The professional too in one sentence tell me what a state planning is, given the fact that no professionals really can say anything in one sentence.

00:42:42: That's very challenging for them and eventually boils down to getting what you have who do want it go too when you wanted to go to them under the terms of conditions they want to go?

00:42:53: And I would tell you that definition Mr.

00:42:56: Client.

00:42:57: exactly.

00:42:57: reason why people don't do estate planning.

00:43:00: how could this be simple?

00:43:02: just look at terms or conditions.

00:43:04: i'll bet your kids were little.

00:43:08: It took months for you to decide who were gonna pick, because your wife's sister is a moron and your brother's a crook.

00:43:15: And you can't figure out who it's going be and takes forever.

00:43:18: Then look at the rest of that document and its all gobbledygook too.

00:43:22: So Its very hard to sign off on gobbledygook.

00:43:25: Terms and conditions are problem.

00:43:27: The second issue Is the WEN issue Especially if I'm talking about somebody whose got a kid who was twenty five and then a sixteen year old.

00:43:39: I'll say, and I said this strategically.

00:43:42: You know the human brain is fully developed at age twenty-five mm-hmm At twenty five.

00:43:45: you know exactly what you're gonna get if they spoil to twenty five.

00:43:49: They spoiled the rest of their life And it's a great kids big great kids for the rest there lives.

00:43:53: so For some people When becomes challenge because your waiting for your kids?

00:43:58: To cook and become who they're going to be like.

00:44:01: i don't how my kids are gonna turn out.

00:44:02: So maybe im not Gonna do planning.

00:44:05: My relationship with my spouse is a little rocky, I don't know.

00:44:08: So when becomes the challenge?

00:44:10: And then who?

00:44:11: which was the first part of that phrase The most important Who in these state planning processes you Mr.. Client because what i Know Is That if i mess You up If i stop you from Being able to enjoy your Wealth Things are not going to happen.

00:44:26: so i know that number one person i have To take care Of an estate plan.

00:44:28: it's actually and people clients Are very appreciative.

00:44:32: When you said So then I say now the real job here, and I had this as a line is that we want to provide protection From divorce and lawsuit transfer taxes on your wealth for as long as the law allows which is pretty much forever.

00:44:48: Yeah.

00:44:48: I use Nevada Law for most things And that's three hundred sixty-five years.

00:44:52: you can have stuff in trust whether you end up That way or not?

00:44:56: I'd rather have the window and people could choose out of it.

00:44:59: But why would you ever one Two generations or one generation when you could have ten, right?

00:45:06: It doesn't cost much it.

00:45:07: Doesn't cause ten times as much to have ten generations that does not want.

00:45:11: So and then they say Now everybody I meet Would want to get their wealth through who they wanted to go too When they wanted To them into the terms of conditions They Wanted to go while protecting Their wealth from divorce in lawsuit and transfer taxes for As long as law allows except For two things And That is The issues Of Income and Control.

00:45:32: so i know having done this with Forty-six years that if I impair your ability to get income from your assets or I impair Your ability To control your assets You'll take a pass.

00:45:43: Yeah

00:45:44: Everybody say the two nods and says you damn straight

00:45:47: Yep,

00:45:48: so then I say And i know That If I can provide you with The satisfactory strings of Income and Control over wealth while getting what?

00:45:57: when you want to go them into the terms and conditions that your gonna learn are possible while protecting a wealth from divorce, loss or transfer taxes.

00:46:02: All of the predators can otherwise take their wealth away.

00:46:04: You'll pretty much do whatever I say And they generally saying one few things.

00:46:10: They either say Your right Or they will say How Do U Do That?

00:46:18: But those all like positives.

00:46:21: Oh!

00:46:23: They could say I've never heard that before To which I always answer, I can't speak to that.

00:46:29: All I know is after hundreds of thousands of hours on tens of thousand cases over the last thirty years this will be no works.

00:46:36: and The reason why it could say those types in numbers because i've taught This too a whole mess of advisors who Can achieve?

00:46:43: That result?

00:46:44: yep so It's not.

00:46:46: there's gonna Be my case as I just notice the experience that everybody has.

00:46:49: Who knows this technology.

00:46:51: And So once they do that They say, okay what's next?

00:46:56: And I go well tell me what you have and i get a very brief understanding of what they've got.

00:47:04: This is interesting.

00:47:06: when computers really became popular to be the early-to mid eighties like people had IBM PCs and ATs big the Big Beige box on their desk

00:47:16: can't say remember

00:47:19: Yeah, well you shouldn't.

00:47:20: It would be very weird if we remembered anything back then.

00:47:22: I wasn't alive.

00:47:23: yes

00:47:23: right good so

00:47:24: could have been a past life though.

00:47:25: oh okay

00:47:27: but But before computers You did transactions based on the words that came out of your mouth.

00:47:36: and Then what computers?

00:47:37: Did?

00:47:38: was they destroyed people's ability to communicate

00:47:43: Destroyed?

00:47:43: Wouldn't it be more that they enable them to communicate better faster?

00:47:47: No, what I

00:47:47: did was laid off the selling To columns of numbers on multiple pages.

00:47:53: and look here.

00:47:54: If you listen to me You'll have five million three hundred twenty two thousand dollars instead a four million five hundred thousand.

00:48:00: And so people who've lost the ability And by the way, not everybody.

00:48:05: People who are great at this talk about people's futures and the world that extra money can go for car services to take you places instead of sitting home like all those things.

00:48:17: so your power is in how you communicate it.

00:48:24: but what computers did was laid off on columns numbers they never write anyway.

00:48:32: financial planning And this is just me talking, although there are many who agree with me.

00:48:37: Financial planning as a bankrupt science...

00:48:40: What does that mean?

00:48:42: If you were forty years old and I asked today what do think you need to live on at sixty-five?

00:48:49: So thinking about the estate plan well let's just deal with like.

00:48:52: The bulk of population must make that kind of determination.

00:48:56: You say i don't know.

00:48:58: or you say Well based on what I'm spending now Okay, and if we actually took what you live on today And compounded it out that number's wrong because she just don't know like I did perfect planning for me when I was thirty years old That and i became unwell.

00:49:16: And they couldn't acquire life insurance?

00:49:18: And I was planning for the target that was appropriate.

00:49:21: age-thirty I would have been behind The eight ball from my entire life.

00:49:25: right now

00:49:26: What's the missing

00:49:27: time?

00:49:28: okay well he had to do as much As You can Do as Early as Possible Because If You wait The returns you need for the amount.

00:49:36: You can commit to a process.

00:49:38: They don't.

00:49:39: they don't exist in the real world.

00:49:40: so So that's more like socialism than it is like capitalism, right?

00:49:47: I mean the USSR had five-year plans But every year they had a new five your plan because then never achieved any of results That they thought there were gonna achieve.

00:49:55: so In the type of planning I do you Do as much as you can and you run his hardness fast you can going forward.

00:50:02: How did we get a client to buy into that?

00:50:04: Actually, they all believe it when you tell them.

00:50:08: You think about their businesses?

00:50:10: They don't sit there and say I'm gonna sell a hundred widgets by twenty-twenty eight now...you know what they want to do?

00:50:22: They wanna sell as many freaking widgets as they possibly can right now!

00:50:26: All of em'right now!

00:50:27: And they wanted design their business.

00:50:29: be able to do that.

00:50:31: You've expanded your employee base So that way you can handle not just what's happening today, but yeah.

00:50:36: You know growth growing into the future.

00:50:39: Same thing Now.

00:50:41: do you have a vision of though?

00:50:42: Of the amount to business you want to do in a few years?

00:50:44: absolutely But you're not targeting that because you may blow past that if you run efficiently all along The way.

00:50:51: mm-hmm right so business owners get that easily

00:50:56: Absolutely.

00:50:57: and so that's the narrative I use.

00:50:58: That's it That's that envisioning the possibility in the future, is how much money do you want on a future?

00:51:05: Well as much as possible.

00:51:06: I don't be limited by some imaginary number so your run as hard and fast as can.

00:51:11: You know i never sell life insurance on a needs basis Because it's always the wrong number Always The Wrong Number.

00:51:17: Yeah!

00:51:18: I Want People To Buy As Much As An Insurance Company Will Show On Their Life Which Is Actually What They're Worth.

00:51:25: So...I think this is interesting.

00:51:27: And then..you Know Where This Usually Leads For Me is there's the amount that I need for me today, maybe tomorrow in the future.

00:51:36: Whatever that feature may be.

00:51:38: but what about the next generation?

00:51:39: Right you talk- Say more

00:51:41: about them.

00:51:43: You frequently talked to me about generational planning and i think...I don't think most advisors know how to talk about That.

00:51:49: they dont fully understand it..you mention Nevada ,you mentioned a number of years There.

00:51:53: .You mentioned where people or children mature And were level out as adults.

00:51:57: Talk to me a little bit about generational planning.

00:51:59: What do people really need to know about this?

00:52:02: What they need to is that you can do it,

00:52:04: okay

00:52:06: what They need to no is doesn't cost eighteen million times more than doing one generation Planting.

00:52:12: and they have to acknowledge that the apple sometimes falls far from the tree And rolls down the hill and falls in lake rots.

00:52:17: You Know I Have three great kids none of them.

00:52:21: i would wish That they could be like Me In some ways but not unlike others.

00:52:25: But II I Would tell you that The odds Of Them re-creating what I've already created, very low.

00:52:33: Very low?

00:52:33: I think my kid's gonna meet me by all standards measures is just going to be so much better

00:52:38: could be and maybe not you know You just don't know.

00:52:42: So if i create lots of wealth for g two My G too And they decide To become school teachers They're Gonna have a leg up on everybody else.

00:52:55: They decided to Be entrepreneurs.

00:52:56: they Have seed capital For whatever they choose to do.

00:52:59: And there are three different kids, and they have three different ambitions.

00:53:02: That's totally fine.

00:53:04: But why would I if i had the ability?

00:53:07: To solve for that?

00:53:08: Why wouldn't I?

00:53:11: yeah The only reason why I wouldn't is If I didn't have this satisfactory strings of income and control over my wealth while playing the game.

00:53:18: That's it.

00:53:19: basically It's a make-it sound simple right and you know.

00:53:27: its like watching an olympic sport when You see how easy some people Handle their sport.

00:53:34: Well, they made that look easy.

00:53:35: well no That's that's thousands of hours Of learning there craft

00:53:41: Mm-hmm

00:53:41: to do the job except for one guy in the shooting thing who just Turkish

00:53:46: guys it shows up with nothing.

00:53:47: boom boom boom And he got like the bronze like and if you actually had all the equipment He probably gotten the gold.

00:53:53: any might have been in the CIA or something like that, you know?

00:53:56: Like whatever their true equivalent is.

00:53:57: Who knows how we knew to shoot but what the truth is sometimes when we see as easy and the foreground The amount of work they went into that is astonishing.

00:54:09: That's true.

00:54:10: I have never met somebody who had some natural skill who produced outsized results without a tremendous amount of worked too.

00:54:23: Okay Michael Phelps says big hands and big feet.

00:54:26: yeah he's tall Okay, but if he didn't have his coach who saw every stroke and he says this in his talks The coach saw every single stroke And he swam every single day.

00:54:37: If you didn't do that He wouldn't of won all the golds correct?

00:54:42: And he would might've run some winsome races without all that just because it is natural physical attributes.

00:54:49: Yeah I

00:54:49: think Alex Ramosy says people only cheer for you at two parts In your life at the very beginning of the race and at the end.

00:54:55: nobody roots for you in the middle.

00:54:57: Well, it's all the hard work that goes in the middle and people don't even recognize it.

00:55:00: One hundred percent

00:55:02: All right.

00:55:02: So you and I have had another conversation a few times in the past.

00:55:05: It's about establishing yourself as an authority.

00:55:07: I think most advisors forget to establish themselves on this as an Authority.

00:55:12: i'm curious about your perspective On what is missing

00:55:17: for other advisers?

00:55:18: Yeah

00:55:18: They haven't done the work.

00:55:20: okay Is that it?

00:55:22: there could be some other things but You know You have to be able to answer questions, but you don't have to answer the questions.

00:55:34: Like you have to B that you had the answers to the questions.

00:55:39: But do you have know?

00:55:40: The answers for the question?

00:55:41: I'm not sure if i'm being clear about this.

00:55:43: When I walk into a room or I'm on a zoom call.

00:55:48: part of it is You set me up as an authority.

00:55:51: okay the very fact that you do that makes mean Authority.

00:55:55: um...I can take one of my young team members and come in on a situation, let's say it was the thirty-year old executive.

00:56:05: I could tell you my associate John is an expert at working with you that halo effect he has done.

00:56:16: now He knows his stuff And i'm setting him up But lets just say I didn't exist.

00:56:26: What does he have to do?

00:56:28: He has to do work He has to be good with people, and he has the presence in a room that hasn't been authority.

00:56:40: So when we're back at that twenty-two year old now how does it establish himself as an authority?

00:56:47: The twenty two years old probably won't be able until they have time served As often say.

00:56:55: And again They had their

00:56:58: joint business.

00:56:58: The credibility of others.

00:57:00: bringing in an actual authority is the solution.

00:57:03: So they can get their foot in the door.

00:57:04: They can get a conversation started, go grab somebody that could actually establish themselves as authority

00:57:10: and even for me around forty six years.

00:57:14: sometimes not often I'll say to somebody if it comes up you know when you work with me You're getting my relationships which are extraordinary

00:57:24: mm-hmm.

00:57:25: so there's something we got To take care of.

00:57:27: i Know The people or?

00:57:34: They go, okay that's good.

00:57:37: And then we're off to the

00:57:37: races.".

00:57:38: You can see

00:57:38: the experience in it and I guess what makes me curious is when did you consider yourself an authority?

00:57:44: When did change occur your career?

00:57:46: In two years ago... I don't know.

00:57:47: was there a lot of

00:57:47: time?

00:57:47: Ten minutes after i started!

00:57:48: No no not at all.

00:57:51: When I used to do capital needs analysis for the kitchen table my voice would crack.

00:57:55: I cannot

00:57:56: imagine that.

00:57:57: It was terrible.

00:57:58: So you are the twenty-two year old on this story.

00:58:00: Oh yeah, and I can remember some Jerry Harnick who was my manager.

00:58:06: Um...I was his first hire.

00:58:07: he's a great guy very good friend.

00:58:10: i remember sitting in the kitchen just after like we go out to dinner And I'd say I don't know if I could ever do this He goes oh you'll be fine You know?

00:58:18: Like it will.

00:58:19: It's-it's just math Vince!

00:58:20: Just had learn how talk about it..and he is right now.

00:58:24: yet faith of me.

00:58:26: um I've had people choose me my entire career, they wanted to train me and make me better.

00:58:36: And hopefully I met their

00:58:39: expectations.".

00:58:41: Do you really think they chose you?

00:58:45: Yeah

00:58:45: or did you seek them out and put yourself in there life so that it could be the chosen?

00:58:50: one kind of choosing like

00:58:53: this- That's a chicken array kinda hell yeah right but i don't know.

00:58:56: But when first attorney mentor was a guy named Bill Breubendt who is in charge at the advanced underlying department of The Guardian My general agent kind of weedled me into a class that I should not have been in Because I was too new.

00:59:11: you know sometimes they had requirements.

00:59:13: You

00:59:13: asked to get put into that class.

00:59:17: Yes,

00:59:18: so I don't think anybody chose it for you.

00:59:20: you asked forward and then got what?

00:59:21: You asked or you seek did

00:59:23: all right yes.

00:59:25: And then bill Said okay this is a bright guy.

00:59:29: i'm gonna teach him.

00:59:30: What do I Know?

00:59:31: So I guess I guess the answer to question is, you have do something first.

00:59:35: There ya go!

00:59:36: If y'all

00:59:36: don't do something FIRST then whatever's gonna happen next can happen.

00:59:40: Just don't believe you got lucky and don't belive in that You did something that got them.

00:59:45: think of your way.

00:59:46: I'm not

00:59:46: sure thats a transferable training moment...I

00:59:48: think it absolutely is.

00:59:50: Well thats

00:59:51: good.

00:59:52: So there was when i was year two or three at New York Life There was a guy named Steve Kineski.

00:59:58: He's their advisor of the year and he worked with doctors, I work with doctors.

01:00:02: They said you got to be here in business ten years to get in And i begged pleaded fought cried through hissy fit.

01:00:08: they say fine we'll let your end.

01:00:09: I learned more on that one training than anything else.

01:00:12: but made sure nobody picked me.

01:00:14: Nobody is ever going pick me.

01:00:15: So don't think anybody would have picked for that training unless u asked.

01:00:19: I

01:00:20: guess it was so long ago.

01:00:21: Just ask for stuff,

01:00:23: is the lesson that I see you saying?

01:00:25: You're saying he's given to and think what are really trying tell me as you asked for stop.

01:00:28: then people said sure!

01:00:31: Okay i'll accept them...I

01:00:33: seek mentorship from many others because they've also been a pain in the ass enough that can't get rid of him but seems work well too.

01:00:43: There were some truths about this.

01:00:45: Yeah there'a lot of truth all right now here by these exciting people on your life Like, who are these?

01:00:52: Don't pick me.

01:00:52: I know you're gonna pick me.

01:00:53: don't pick my eye.

01:00:54: You have probably no more advisors than most people will.

01:00:58: Who would be interesting?

01:00:59: the up-and-comers maybe attorneys?

01:01:01: not necessarily in our business.

01:01:02: But who is it that wows impresses you?

01:01:03: um

01:01:08: i Would tell you That when i moved over to mass mutual i met many open giving Friendly advisers.

01:01:19: i was embraced very quickly So impressed with all them.

01:01:25: Certainly you, Joe Gagley as an example.

01:01:31: I knew when he was in infant.

01:01:32: actually really yeah we're

01:01:34: gonna have him on here.

01:01:35: oh that doesn't change the fact that i know it's an infant.

01:01:38: okay

01:01:39: but he wasn't as muscular and is a baby.

01:01:41: just letting me now...

01:01:43: He didn't come out?

01:01:44: Well, I don't think so.

01:01:45: That would have been odd.

01:01:49: Somebody was taking some performance-enhancing drugs before birth...

01:01:53: I will not tell his mother about this conversation!

01:01:58: And honestly in Guardian there are great producers who were very giving.

01:02:05: I do believe that you attract to you Who You Are

01:02:10: Okay?

01:02:10: ...I

01:02:12: Have Very Few Jerks In My Life and the jerks that I have in my life, I don't play with.

01:02:22: And as long as I'm still giving, I get in return.

01:02:28: so there are great advisors at Guardian.

01:02:30: they're great advisors of Mass...I mean the form four hundred.

01:02:34: what's funny about that is i was a member for well over decade having never gone to meeting I would listen to the cassette tapes.

01:02:47: By the way, that's how I met Dick Oceans one of their greatest attorneys.

01:02:50: Well for

01:02:50: people who don't know what is forum for hundred

01:02:53: four five hundred?

01:02:54: Is an organization Of top life insurance producers in The United States Going in the way back?

01:03:03: a million dollar roundtable was average producers, and there were people who are exceptional.

01:03:09: And what they did is formed their own organization separate from MDRT called the four... The time.

01:03:14: it's like five million dollar form by way that not premium but face amount That how old the organization is.

01:03:20: Five million a face amount got you in?

01:03:21: I think It had many changes.

01:03:24: now its call the four or four hundred.

01:03:26: But this where The greatest life insurance producers live in the United States.

01:03:33: and then eventually I'm not shortly there for I guess MDRT developed top of the table.

01:03:38: We made a commitment at four or so.

01:03:41: Just turns out One year, I said Okay, I'm gonna go.

01:03:47: I ended up meeting Curtis cloak At that meeting

01:03:49: Kurt as well.

01:03:50: that was his wonderful.

01:03:51: That was his first experience before.

01:03:54: So my first experience of meeting and his was same And we became close friends.

01:04:00: But I met Folks that were extraordinary producers who are unbelievably giving because one of the requirements to the organization is you have to share.

01:04:10: That's not true in most organizations like the one of The requirement says, You belong your qualified and you have To share in some way either a board committee on stage.

01:04:21: But yeah I have to Share.

01:04:22: And so when i started going by way?

01:04:26: I went then I went Then I went and One day I was tapped to belong On the Board And then one day I was tapped to be in the executive committee.

01:04:34: Oh, man

01:04:35: and I became a president and In the year that I was President i engineered the merger between four for hundred and finseca.

01:04:43: Okay is it one of the toughest years of my life?

01:04:44: It's hard to do.

01:04:46: There's exhausting but if always the right thing because you know finseqa Is an large part about our voice in Congress and in this Senate and An organization at small does not serve or profession well at all.

01:05:00: So growing that is important.

01:05:03: And my love, it's the four and for a hundred It's the greatest people I've met in the business.

01:05:09: You're there like.

01:05:10: so how awesome?

01:05:11: There we go!

01:05:12: And um...I've learned so much.

01:05:16: i never would have met Dick Oceans if it wasn't for The Four and For A Hundred where I learned strategies of state planning strategies That has changed My life because they change lives with clients you know.

01:05:28: So I want to kind of shift from the things you've learned, the people that have known through some these client conversations.

01:05:35: We talked about a framework for establishing what estate planning means and we talked about your view on generational planning.

01:05:43: You know...I had the pleasure listening to educate clients.

01:05:50: One of those frameworks is product versus paper.

01:05:54: Can you just walk me through it?

01:05:55: at high level?

01:05:56: Sure.

01:05:57: So everyone we meet has to be on two parallel paths, the first path is life insurance.

01:06:02: by the way I'm talking about these high-wealthy state planning space or the wealthiest okay.

01:06:06: so the First Path Is Life Insurance and that's About The Type Amount Positioning And Funding Of That Life Insurance?

01:06:11: That'S Product!

01:06:12: And The Second Path Is Wealth Shifting Which Is Engineering A Silo Outside The Transfer Tax System Such As The Assets Protected From Divorce Law Student Transfer Tax Um...and That'S Paper.

01:06:26: So And what I often say to clients and you've heard me.

01:06:29: Say this There are attorneys that think You don't need life insurance because they think their paper solves the problem, and i know there were Life insurance guys who?

01:06:38: Think you Don't need To deal with any of This paper crap Because life insurance solves The problem.

01:06:42: but the reality is you Need to do both

01:06:45: okay,

01:06:46: and you need to Do it Both expertly.

01:06:50: Cuz It's a lot at stake.

01:06:52: I Know the law business really well not A lawyer but I can speak it, I could translate it.

01:06:58: I get people clients to understand the importance of it and as I said would you get me?

01:07:05: You'd get my cohort of advisors in every space.

01:07:09: so I bring in attorneys often for clients to work with.

01:07:14: I know that life insurance business very well.

01:07:18: I'm learning the premium finance business.

01:07:20: I'll be an expert on everything else because I know how those two things integrate.

01:07:28: Amazing, what would you say is the best question a client ever asked?

01:07:36: We'd go to law school and i'm not a lawyer.

01:07:38: they're going.

01:07:40: no really damn good life insurance guy.

01:07:46: So we've got a couple of quick things here before week.

01:07:48: You know in other than the movie A Christmas Carol or the book there's a when Christmas Present comes on this scene.

01:07:57: yeah Uh, he says you have not seen the likes of me before.

01:08:01: He said that to Ebenezer Scrooge.

01:08:02: I am NOT a common life insurance guy

01:08:06: now

01:08:09: And I don't do that Because it's like a pat on my back and because-because i'm committed To producing good results You gotta be really Good to produce good Results for people?

01:08:24: All

01:08:26: right, I want to take the rest of our time.

01:08:30: I wanna do some rapid fire questions if that's okay with you.

01:08:34: Are you a call guy or text guy?

01:08:39: Compliant texting but... I think the breakdown in life today for most people is they don't speak to each other.

01:08:49: They text and texting as the lowest form of communication In my book

01:08:53: not emojis

01:08:55: Memes I think I think those fall into the category of crappy communication.

01:08:59: Oh, okay.

01:09:03: So I mean if you go to a restaurant You could see four kids texting each other while sitting at table and talk with each other.

01:09:09: That's odd to me.

01:09:10: it's

01:09:10: quieter there.

01:09:11: I enjoy eating out.

01:09:12: more

01:09:12: understood But it's not when that we're raising a bunch people who don't know how to talk to each other.

01:09:17: Do

01:09:18: you think communication as an art is lost?

01:09:21: Sadly

01:09:22: Okay.

01:09:23: next question Best book you've read this year, last few years?

01:09:28: The best... So I don't read nonfiction anymore.

01:09:32: Sorry!

01:09:33: Don't read fiction any more.

01:09:34: I read non-fiction.

01:09:35: the best book that i've read is building a story brand ...I'd say in the last five seven years.

01:09:41: Building A Story Brand Is by far one of the greatest books because it speaks to what I've known That most advisors don't fully get which that we, as advisors are not the hero in The Client's Story.

01:09:56: We're merely a guide and have to make them the hero of this

01:10:00: story.".

01:10:01: And he has got whole book on it!

01:10:03: It is brilliant...and everybody who reads after they read it call me go, �That was my best book I've ever read.� They say well there�s others but you know....to me..that was the best book in last several years.

01:10:15: Do want share some other?

01:10:17: I knew would ask.

01:10:17: so actually had little list.

01:10:19: Look at

01:10:20: It's broken down into a couple of categories.

01:10:21: So I have one category about language and so there are this four in that list, they should be some others but these is the four.

01:10:35: There is The Last Word On Power by Tracy Goss Hard to find.

01:10:42: Very valuable Language In The Pursuit Of Happiness By Chalmers Brothers.

01:10:48: That Is A Killer Book.

01:10:50: Leadership and the art of conversation by Kim Crisco.

01:10:53: Those are super big deals.

01:10:54: And then last one is conversations for action and collected essays by Fernando Flores who was a Chilean senator and philosopher.

01:11:03: heavy book Great stuff in it, but stop with the others you know.

01:11:08: Then in behavior because I'm by way i've spent A lot of time studying behavioral finance and behavioral economics Because if you think about People have natural stops to doing business.

01:11:21: a lot of that is just behavioral stuff.

01:11:23: So you have to understand it in order be able do something about it.

01:11:29: Robert Chaldini Hmm

01:11:31: influence

01:11:32: influence, but the one you want is the most readable one which has influenced science and practice.

01:11:38: That's A very good book.

01:11:40: I tried To read The other One first.

01:11:41: that was his Brutal.

01:11:42: yeah,

01:11:42: it's brutal because It's all data driven.

01:11:46: i don't need i'll trust that he knows the Data Yeah?

01:11:48: I Want to know the Doing Of it

01:11:50: Okay

01:11:54: Also by Chaldeany persuasion a revolutionary way to influence and persuade another kill book.

01:12:01: That's the I think was the last one he wrote.

01:12:05: Mistakes were made but not by me.

01:12:10: could tell a quick story about those please.

01:12:14: So after got divorced from my second wife, you know One of the things she do though

01:12:18: we weren't allowed to open this cat arms

01:12:19: that we're not going any further than this.

01:12:21: so One of the things that you do, we have kids.

01:12:24: You buy a gift for your ex and then right?

01:12:28: So I end up with this book in my little gift bag And i'm reading the title and i'm going Damn it!

01:12:36: That's an insult.

01:12:37: like mistakes were made by not but not by me...that's given to me by xy.

01:12:40: I get home..I throw The Book into My Christmas Tree Never To Be Seen Again For Two Months.

01:12:47: Take Down The Christmas Tree In February Oh....The Book Is Like Stuck In The Tree.

01:12:51: so true story.

01:12:53: So I start reading the book.

01:12:54: It's the most brilliant book on behavior because it talks about how we justify our actions and it makes it easier for me, if talking to a prospect understand where they're coming from is great book.

01:13:16: Thinking Fast & Slow by Kahneman.

01:13:21: Why Smart People Make Big Money Mistakes?

01:13:24: By Gary Belsky.

01:13:25: great book because there's a whole bunch of things that Happen in our selling conversations, then we sit there.

01:13:32: We marvel at why somebody is not taking action and it's because of behavioral biases.

01:13:39: Okay That we have to understand.

01:13:40: they're gonna be able to speak them.

01:13:43: And then one of my favorites by Dan Ariely predictably rational Irrational

01:13:50: okay?

01:13:52: You know I'm trying to read you.

01:13:54: ok.

01:13:55: and Then in the area of being best book, The Three Laws of Performance by FARM.

01:14:05: And there's some others here but they get a little bit too woo for most people?

01:14:09: I

01:14:09: will take that whole list from you and i'm gonna add it on them.

01:14:12: make sure its included at bottom like in comments to podcast.

01:14:14: so anybody wants entire Vince List we can.

01:14:17: Thank you Vince, I think this has been incredible.

01:14:20: The lessons the stories and advice for new advisors...the younger ones..the inexperienced people....I think it's incredible!

01:14:26: You're a vault of knowledge.

01:14:27: I look forward to spending at least twenty years working with you maybe thirty.

01:14:32: we'll see how long you got.

01:14:34: As

01:14:34: long as i have my marbles ,you've got me.

01:14:35: I

01:14:36: hope those marbles stick around for very long time.

01:14:38: thank you so much for being

01:14:42: here Vince.